Polemika o textoch, postojoch a ideách spojenia punku a viery s Mišom (Staré Deti) a Pablom (ex-Earth Citizens, Strongly Opposed rec.) : 

Mišo:

Nedávno som trochu debatoval cez mail na tému spojenia viery/kresťanstva a punku s Pablom ( dlhoročným punkovým aktivistom, vydavateľom DIY nahrávok zo Švajčiarska). Posielal som totiž mailom v Mp3 naše demo. CD-čka nemá stále rád, takže to bolo jednoduchšie, rýchlejšie aj praktickejšie. Muzika sa mu ľúbila a pýtal sa ma na texty. Tak sme ich v kapele preložili a hodili na bandcamp. Pablo je vášnivý diskutér. Veľká škoda, že som ho osobne ešte nestretol. V roku 2001 som síce koncertoval v Bieli/Bienne (CH), kde žije, no nemal som čas ho vtedy ísť navštíviť. Tak sme si vymenili za tie roky viacero listov a neskôr niekoľko mailov. Posledne aj na vyšie spomenutú tému. Ak máš záujem, tu je podstatná časť z nich. Samozrejme v angličtine. Moje komunikačné schopnosti sú v cudzom jazyku značne obmedzené, takže...

Pablo: Only with these two lines i am wondering what exactly you mean: We are naked children of paradise, sons and daughters of the crucified God

Mišo: Yeah Pablo, I will try to explain you... 
That song is dedicated to Roma people. I am work with them as social worker for many years. At least the Roma in Slovakia are believers, so the sentence is such that they could identify with it.
My friend Tadeáš, who is bass player of Staré Deti and author of this lyric is a monk, a Capuchin. He also work with Roma people. He also live in monastery, so his life is about faith and social work.I am also believer, for me punk is a means of expressions, (anger, passion, it is my way of creativity), but it is not the meaning of my life. My lyrics are more metaphors, but my friend Tadeáš is more direct. We are not "Christian band", but we want to put our ideas into music, cos it is important for us.

Pablo: Hey Mišo, thanx for your explanation. Wow,i never heard of Capuchin monks being allowed to play in a band! Let alone in a punk band!The reason for this is pretty simple,punk is an anti-authoritarian movement and Franciscans have an authority-ie. god. Maybe it's less strict in Slovakia? Here they wouldn't be allowed to play in a band.I don't have a problem with anyone who feels the need to believe in a 'higher power' as long as they do it for themselves.I do have a little problem to understand anyone who is a believer and joins a church.I was way more than happy the day i was old enough to quit the church!I thought the bible is a good book,but it's also very brutal and bloodthirsty.At some point i just concluded that this doesn't work for me.And around the same time i discovered punk.You could maybe say that punk is my religion,but i don't follow anyone,apart from my own way.The meaning of life,ah well that's simple-Monty Python gave the answer with their classic film But if there is a meaning in my life then it surely is punk.The only thing that stayed with me since 1977.As said,no problem with people who believe in a god...however when it comes down to bands actually preaching (such as BAD BRAINS,SHELTER...) i'm out-or in other words their records went out(well BAD BRAINS,never had any SHELTER anyway!).I'm just a diehard, convinced atheist from the bottom of my safety pin heart,but if you studied EARTH CITIZENS a little closer,esp.with our 7'' it is all said there.
I also often have a problem to identify with certain refugees or people who live herewith an extreme belief (be it muslim, jew etc), some people call to support them all...i mean why should i support people who view me(a punk)as scum,as a subhuman?I had quite a few bad experiences with extreme believers,i don't really need to support them,cos given the chance they'd drop me down a hole,cos i'm a disbeliever.It's pretty complex yet so simple. I guess you'd disapprove of ACTIVE MINDS latest 10'' called 'Religion Is Nonsense'.As in 1991 in 2020 NO GOD NO LEADERS NO STATE NO RELIGION. In my opinion these 4 things cause all the world's problems and wars.
As said if anyone decides to be believer for him/herself, ok-i don't understand it but ok. I hope this makes sense? I certainly don't hate you or your band! cheers

Mišo: You wrote: Maybe it's less strict in Slovakia? Here they wouldn't be allowed to
play in a band.Allowed by who? By the authority of anti-authorial punks? Slovakia is quite a religious country, so the Gaussian curve also includes some punx. But for sure, it is not common also here, even in DIY HC/punk scene that we are part of it. But some bands have member which are believer.Our bass player, Tadeáš, is Minor Capuchin monk. Yes Capuchines their idea still was and is - the eremitical idea was abandoned, but the life was to be one of extreme austerity, simplicity and poverty-in all things as near an approach to St Francis' ideals as was practicable."Higher power" is concept of paganism, Christianity have personal God, someone who you can have relationship. Church is not the institution, but community of people. We are the Church, it is not like that, we are here and there is a Church. Yes it is complicated. Personality myself we have this belief in our family also during Communism regime, which was strictly against it.
Monty Python are great and they makes really funny things with strong ideas, I like them. I saw Meaning of Life and also Life of Brian and some others...but it is fun. Reality is little bit different. It is funny because things what is their fun all about, are serious. Most funny thing are politically non-correct.like religion, politics, sexuality etc...
I know that in Poland are some punks, for example ARMIA, I think that members were close to believe. I have somewhere your E.C. EP from 1991, I will check it. BAD BRAINS are cool musically, I don't know their lyrics I must say. Shelter is not music for me.
In Bible there is a lot of brutality, cos people were/are brutal. And people without God could be even more brutal. Because for them there is nothing above them, so they can consider them self as gods. Many of them want to be "free", they want to punish others, just because they want to. There is no reason for these people to have mercy with somebody, when after death is nothing. They wanna enjoy your life and don't care about others. And for sure they don't care about punk bands, punk ideas or something. Why they should? But when is it here consequence for every act you done is you life, and it is true (what I believe) it is very different situations.When no one will be excluded from final trial it is very hard imperative to live your live responsibly.There were few political regimes that tells: There is no god. Boga net...You can see, what was the consequences, check USSR, North Korea, China...no human rights, no religion rights, no rights. Uf, it a serious polemic, maybe next time I will more. But for this time one of my fave scene of Monty Pythons - it a little bit sexistic, but mainly it is fun against authorities. 

Pablo: Haha, nope it's not anti-authoritarian punks who won't allow monks to play in punk bands,it's the monastery! I come from a religious family, and there was talk about it all the time...then i read the bible and made my mind up myself. When i quit the church my mum even got the priest to our home to discuss it with me.and he had no choice to change my mind.That's true there's quite religious countries/areas around the planet,and even punx there sometimes thank a god.I never understood that and never will. The german band OHL sums it up for me:NO GOD STANDS ABOVE ME MY LIFE ONLY BELONGS TO ME.or even CRASS put it in simple words THERE IS NO AUTHORITY-BUT YOURSELF.Or one of the first songs i heard from a DIY band,the SUBHUMANS(UK) i would also quote for 'Religious Wars':IN THE NAME OF GOD THEY SENT YOU TO DIE RELIGIOUS WARS THERE'S NO REASON WHAT's said,i made my mind up BEFORE i read all these lyrix,but when i found them i thought'oh,i'm not alone thinking this way'.Some people say i'm following things...but already at age 11 i had most of my ideology that i believe in.Long before i was able to understand some of the bands lyrix!
The bible definitely has a lot of brutal stories...and some of these crimes are committed by god himself. And why would i want to believe in a god who sends a flood and most people die in that??? I don't think people without a god can be more brutal,considering god created man and woman and then KILLS most of them if they're not according to his rules.That's true officially those country you name said 'no god' but we all know that people want the things that are forbidden.As you say about yourself and your family you had the belief back in (fake) 'communist' times. If you were not allowed to have it,then how come you still had it? Another fine example is the church in the DDR who supported punk bands,state said 'no god' yet still churches were allowed.But i think it's wrong to say those countries are 100% bad only cos they said 'no god'.Human rights are treated like shit everywhere! You can ask the singer of my oldband THE BRAINS OF HUMANS. As a child they put him in a religious family,the woman already had 5 children...so she put him in an acid bath!!!! He has burnt skin on his legs and he is constantly going to the hospital ever since! The Religious group NEVER apologized officially. Where's the human rights there?And that's none of the fake 'communist' regimes we're talking about,but the 'free and neutral' Switzerland! And he's only one example.And people hear turn their backs on religion more and more,esp.catholics withall the rape stories etc. Many times i heard people say 'how can i believe in a godwith these things happening in the year 2000's???'.
You know we have Jehovah's witness coming to our doors-i really enjoyed every visit,cos it made me sharpen my mind.Their technique is simple,they're always two-a younger and an older,more experienced persyn...when the younger persyn can't convince you,the older one will try...i always made it to the older persyn. And they both went silent when i asked about the 10 laws and i asked them if they eat meat...they all do...then i said well about THOU SHALL NOT KILL.???All the times they came the discussion stopped then,cos they didn't know what to say.
That's true about ARMIA,i heard that too.,I am aware that i do have some records with people who are believers. That's not the point really,(although i can't understand it-it's an oxymoron to me),but when i read some preaching i won't keep the record.Someone once sent me a tape with christian punk(???)band singing things like'Jesus is my number one'...i simply couldn't understand it at all. Many of the new-Hardcore bands have religious pictures on their covers...you never know if they criticize or if they support religion-so my tactic is to stay away.
Monty Python is classic.Sadly another of the 6 has passed away recently.One of them posted something.'2 down 4 to go'(2 dead 4 more to die) Did you know they had a theatre appearance some years ago? One of them was already dead.They always said if we ever play again it's all 6 of us.So what to do? They went on stage and put a box with the ashes of the 6th member on the stage-so it was all 6 of them! Hahaha,that's classic but what is sexist with that scene?
BAD BRAINS,well,i like the music too...but their LP 'rock for light' already says it in the title.Plus they were/are rastafarians and their religion says 1.MAN FIRST 2.THEN NOTHING 3.THEN NOTHING 4.AND THEN MAYBE WOMAN 5.AND GAYS AND LESBIANS-NEVER!!! Well first i didn't know what Jah means,then i thought maybe it's a joke but the second LP had even more songs like that.Years later i learnt about the rastafaris so i was happy i passed those records on.Most people love the band cos they are black...that's pretty racist to accept someone just cos of that. I always appreciate someone for who they are,regardless of nationality,color of skin...etc.And how could i support a band like BAD BRAINS when equality is my aim?-equality of Mother Earth,animals and humans.
I can't proof there is no god,but none can proof there is one.But we can proof the planet is our home and we should treat it and all its inhabitants in a nice way. Mother Earth can live without us (probably a lot better!!!),but we can't without her. Haha, you see, my ideology has bits from everywhere,but it's all grow in my own mind,and only later i noticed-oh these people say this and those people say that. I even follow the rules from the bible.Not cos it tells me to,but because it's common sense! Why on earth would i eat a family member???
Cheers for now...

Mišo: Pablo ok, I understand your opinions. That story with B.O.H. member is crazy, but you can´t judge somebody who is psychically ill, because it seems like this :(What is important to me is, that I can sit around one table with anybody and have the different opinions and always respect him, even I do not agree. Yes I read about DDR situations, when punks can make rehearsals and gigs under cover of Church. Actually I am listening Siberian punk band Teplaya Trassa, did you hear about them? It seems to be christian band. They are sounds little bit like Grazhdanskaya Oborona: https://ttrassa.kroogi.com/music?locale=ru
Bedside this religious debate ( I will try write something more later), please can you tell me something more about band JOY? There is some info here, but I would like to more infos... https://www.discogs.com/artist/1382258-JoyIt is very less-know band, over-looked I think. Is there any recordings online available?

Pablo: Hey MišoI wasn't blaming the persyn who obviously couldn't stand the pressures of raising 6 children,I was blaming the religious group,and even more our singer blames the group and still waits for an apology!! Hehe,about Teplaya Trassa,no i haven't heard them(i checked and they only did cd's that explains it all!) but somehow i'm not surprised they sound a little like Grazhdanskaya Oborona!
Hmm about JOY? There is not else to say about this band-we did exist for a very short while and we existed at the same time as EARTH CITIZENS.In the beginning also Furz The System was also in the band but then he decided to only play in EARTH CITIZENS. The only real release we did was the ultra low cost tape,plus a little later the split live tape (that was recorded at the gig with Earth Citizens And Active Minds).After the gig,we never practised again and we simply disappeared,we never really split up,officially! But i have no idea where the other members are...i hope they're all well and alive!! Thanx for thinking we've been overlooked! I'm actually thinking of doing an LP with some rehearsal recordings.Well maybe only 20 copies or so....but before that i have other plans.If the masters still work we'll release THE BRAINS OF HUMANS 7'' and LP recorded in 1987/88,a little delay of 32 years.
Respect is also what i'm into! I shared tables with all kinds of people(except orthodox jews,they never even spoke a word to me!!!).cheers for now...Pablo...